The New World Translation: A Trust-worthy "Bible”?
Comments
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Alarming!
The way you describe trinity sounds blasphemous (what must your heart be feeling like right now?), but then you can only understand it from the worldview of JW polytheism--little god+ big god. What you say makes sense from the Watchtower point of view.
God is one God understood as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I am saved by God in the person of Jesus who came to us in the form of a man and gave Himself as sacrifice for out sins. Then He rose again in bodily form and lives today in all the fullness of the glory of Who God is.
I double dare you to actually answer questions you are asked such as to explain JW polytheismof little god/big god and dozens more.
Your failure to answer will be taken as admission that you know JW's are a false cult; nevertheless, you personally choose the Watchtower over Jehovah.
JW polytheism:
Watchtower + a big God: Jehovah (Catholic contrived word) + a little god: Jesus (a false Jesus) + who knows what other nonsense.
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Since you reject that Jehovah is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. The antichrsitan removes Christ to insert him as God. Even when Jesus admits, the Father is Greater than I am (John14:28) You say well Jesus is simply wrong. Well if Jesus is God, how can he be less than his God and Father? He is not God, that is why he claims the Father is Greater then I AM. (John 14:28)
You trinity cult is being exposed... no such thng as co-equal in the Bble...unless you want to quote the Wicked Religious Leaders who were lying about Christ. Go ahead do it.
Even time you denounce Jehovah , you denounce Jesus. How do you think the Holy Spirit feels about that?
The trinity is polytheism. Its doctrine claims three GODS.
1) God the Father
2) God the Son
3) God the Holy Spirit
trintarians say the trinity is not made of three Gods when the doctine itself lists (3) SEPRATE Gods... You even added a GODDESS claiming Mary is the Mother of God.
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READ THIS (because I have answered many times and you clearly either have a very tiny brain or are a Watchtower puppet or are not reading).
Christians most certainly do believe that Jehovah is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The antichrsitan removes Christ to insert him as God.
I have no idea what that means, if anything.
Jesus admits, the Father is Greater than I am (John14:28) You say well Jesus is simply wrong.
Jesus was right. God was greater than just what people could see in the man, Jesus.
if Jesus is God, how can he be less than his God and Father?
The man people could see was God, but not all God was could be manifest in the form of a man. Jesus was God in the form of man. God is more than the man people could see and call Jesus. In that way, God was greater than Jesus, the fleshly man people saw.
Is that so hard to grasp? Even children get it. Throw out your Watchtower and the Bible will become clear.
Even time you denounce Jehovah
No one is denouncing Jehovah. You are worse than the leftist media at making up untruth.
The trinity is polytheism. Its doctrine claims three GODS.
I feel bad calling you a liar, but you know that isn't true and have had it explained to you untold times.
Face it. You reject the true God in favor of your deceitful Watchtower.
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Changing your colors again. Quess what "the truth" never changes. Now you are admitting that Jesus is a little god as a man?? So now that you agree with the Watchtower, what Jesus said was TRUE. The Father is Greater than I am. (John14:28)
Remember this scripture that you were denying? "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." (John 1:1) Unbrainwashing you is really tough work!
Is the High Priest Greater or Lesser then God???
Post edited by Brother Rando on -
@Truth Face it. You reject the true God in favor of your deceitful Watchtower.
Get out of demonic trininy that denies jehovah is the true God. Blaspheme all you want, you will not be rewarded.
Since that wathcher is agreement with Bible Scripture you are upset. Even the trinty doctrine never claim its the true God so why do you? Is Satan your true god? The trinity never states the second God is the true God? Trinitarians reject Jehovah and Jesus.
Jesus calls his Father the only true God and yet you claim Jesus is lying? See how far you come to take up arms against Jesus Christ? The trinity is not the faher of Jesus Otherwise the three seperate Gods would all be sons. Co-equal and co-begotten.
The triniity certainly list THREE DISTINCT GODS. Which you claim are true. But they have no names. Claiming that Jesus
Christis the SECOND GOD doesn't make it true. The Bible nor the trintiy claims JesusChristis the SECOND GOD.See how come you tend to remove
Christfrom our debates, makes wonder if you even believe Jesus as the Chrst, the Son of the living God (Matthew 16:16)Where is (Matthew 16:16) in the trinity doctrine ??? It's ABSENT... NOT THERE... AWOL... It's not a Chrsitian Doctrine. Did you know Stalin, Hilter, and Putin all worship the same trinity you do? things that make you go ummmmmm....
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Stop spreading WT teaching repetitively in every thread in CD. This is not necessary; you need to get a grip and settle down. The sky is not falling. Your position is well known at this point. Your posts recently have taken a tone of desperation with the meaningless spewing of JWs talking points. The spreading Church doctrines may have been your mission all alone, but seem to have taken on a darken urgency. No minds are going to be changed on either side of this issue at this juncture.
Consider some of the other threads for a while. Given your credibility is weighed in the balance and found wanting. Do you know other matters? Read the other threads widely and contribute there. CM
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Fine. My position has not changed. Not a single scripture about anyone else being the true God except Jehovah.
1 Kings 18:39
When all the people saw it, they immediately fell facedown and said: “Jehovah is the true God! Jehovah is the true God!”
1 Kings 8:60
so that all the peoples of the earth may know that Jehovah is the true God. There is no other!
Joshua 22:34
So the Reuʹben·ites and the Gadʹites named the altar, because “it is a witness between us that Jehovah is the true God.”
Deuteronomy 4:39
Know, therefore, on this day, and take it to heart that Jehovah is the true God in the heavens above and on the earth beneath. There is no other.
Deuteronomy 4:35
You yourselves have been shown these things so you will know that Jehovah is the true God; there is no other besides him.
1 Kings 18:37
Answer me, O Jehovah! Answer me so that this people may know that you, Jehovah, are the true God and that you are turning their hearts back to you.”
2 Chronicles 33:13
He kept praying to Him, and He was moved by his entreaty and heard his request for favor, and He restored him to Jerusalem to his kingship. Then Ma·nasʹseh came to know that Jehovah is the true God.
1 Kings 18:21
Then E·liʹjah approached all the people and said: “How long will you be limping between two different opinions? If Jehovah is the true God, follow him; but if Baʹal is, follow him!” But the people did not say a word in answer to him.
1 Chronicles 22:1
David then said: “This is the house of Jehovah the true God, and this is an altar for burnt offering for Israel.”
2 Chronicles 32:16
His servants said even more against Jehovah the true God and against Hez·e·kiʹah his servant.
1 Chronicles 17:26
And now, O Jehovah, you are the true God, and you have promised these good things concerning your servant.
Daniel 9:3
So I turned my face to Jehovah the true God, entreating him in prayer, along with fasting and sackcloth and ashes.
Nehemiah 9:7
You are Jehovah the true God, who chose Aʹbram and brought him out of Ur of the Chal·deʹans and gave him the name Abraham.
2 Samuel 7:28
And now, O Sovereign Lord Jehovah, you are the true God, and your words are truth, and you have promised these good things to your servant.
2 Chronicles 26:5
And he kept searching for God in the days of Zech·a·riʹah, who taught him to fear the true God. During the time he was searching for Jehovah, the true God made him prosper.
Nehemiah 8:6
Then Ezʹra praised Jehovah the true God, the great One, at which all the people answered, “Amen! Amen!” and lifted up their hands. They then bowed low and prostrated themselves to Jehovah with their faces to the ground.
1 Chronicles 22:19
Now determine with all your heart and soul to seek Jehovah your God, and start building the sanctuary of Jehovah the true God, in order to bring the ark of the covenant of Jehovah and the holy utensils of the true God to the house built for the name of Jehovah.”
Daniel 9:4
I prayed to Jehovah my God and made confession and said: “O Jehovah the true God, the great and awe-inspiring One, who keeps his covenant and shows loyal love to those who love him and keep his commandments,
Deuteronomy 7:9
You well know that Jehovah your God is the true God, the faithful God, keeping his covenant and loyal love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments.
2 Chronicles 5:14
The priests were not able to stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of Jehovah filled the house of the true God.
1 Kings 13:6
The king now said to the man of the true God: “Please, beg for the favor of Jehovah your God, and pray in my behalf that my hand may be restored to me.” At this the man of the true God begged for the favor of Jehovah, and the king’s hand was restored to its former condition.
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That you really think those Bible characters spoke a Catholic-monk invented English word is amusing. That a cult uses that made up word as a name is disturbing.
Why would a cult insist on renaming God some invented name and then obsess over the name such as you display? The spirit behind this must alarm you.
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@BroRando said:
Fine. My position has not changed. Not a single scripture about anyone else being the true God except Jehovah.
@BroRando If you read last, I said as much. Ears and minds are turned off on both sides. Could you give it a rest for now? You are like a man in a sound-proof room screening, and no one is home. Take this moment to reflect upon what you have been taught and believe from the Kingdom Hall. And then, compare it with what you have been exposed to recently in CD through texts, reasoning, and the voice of the Holy Spirit. You do believe in God the Holy Spirit? In the meanwhile, pray for fresh understanding and a refreshing of your soul. CM
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When you're confronted with scripture you simply lie and deny. That's what anti- christians do.
1 Kings 8:60
so that all the peoples of the earth may know that Jehovah is the true God. There is no other!
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aThis source, Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz. a former Governing Body member, tells how this select group functions (another time). His book is very factual. His book reveals many "inside' problems and errors (see a couple of them below). It further yielded what I have been asking @BroRando for many times recently -- the names of the NWT Translators:
“The New World Translation bears no translator's name and is presented as the anonymous work of the 'New World Translation Committee.' Other members of that Committee were:
- Nathan Knorr
- Albert Schroeder
- George Gangas
- Fred Franz, however, was the only one with sufficient knowledge of the Bible languages to attempt translation of this kind. He studied Greek for two years in the University of Cincinnati but was only self-taught in Hebrew."
The master Greek text chosen was that of Westcott and Hort. These men have been described by conservative Protestants as both 'unbelievers' and "heretics". Now, we understand better why words a added, base Greek texts, and why Jesus was robbed of his divinity in the NWT. This is a clear example of why the NWT is NOT a reliable Bible for serious or deep study.
@BroRando, you knew this all alone or were you just holding this information away from me? Oh, which one of the men above you knew personally? Did you "lie and deny" knowing these men's names and other facts around the NWT Translators?
A little something extra:
Raymond Franz: in his book, Crisis of Conscience pp. 218-20, shows the Society was seriously considering shifting the start date for 'this generation' who would witness Armageddon from those who were following the events of 1914 to those who were following the events of 1957, as that was when the first Russian Sputnik was launched into earth's outer space. "Evidently the Chairman's Committee felt that that event could be accepted as marking the start of the fulfillment of these words of Jesus: '.. the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven will be shaken.' (Matt 24:29)]
1985 -"Why are Jehovah's Witnesses persecuted and spoken against?.. Persecution comes because Jehovah's Witnesses put (Jesus') commands ahead of those of any earthly ruler" {Reasoning From The Scriptures, 1 p. 207} [Because their views and actions show they WANT to be persecuted, it is Mark 5 of a Cult. From 1964, JWs in Malawi were persecuted violently (over a thousand rapes) because they followed the Governing Board directive not to purchase a cheap party card that everyone else did (and hence which symbolised nothing). At the same time closer to 'home', in Mexico, JWs were bribing officials to fill in an attendance record to avoid actual military service, having received the following assurance from the Governing Body: "If members of the military establishment are willing to accept such an arrangement upon the payment of a fee then that is the responsibility of these representatives of the national organization.. If the consciences of certain brothers allow then to enter into such an arrangement for their continued freedom, we have no objection. Of course, if they get into any difficulties over their course of action then they are to shoulder such difficulties themselves, and we could not offer them any assistance" {Crisis of Conscience 1983 pp 112- 21}]
From the lips of one who was on the inside bring enlightenment help all to understand JWs. CM
SOURCE:
LIST OF PROPHESIES ...MADE BY THE OFFICIAL ORGANIZATION OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
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Are you also claiming Jesus which means "Jehovah is Salvation' is an error?
What about Elijah which means "My God is Jehovah"? There are many names that refer to Jehovah even though you deny Jesus and Elijah... Your tail and horns are showing.. 😈
What webs of lies we weave heh?
data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP///wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw== -
Delusions are difficult to overcome, but show us any Hebrew manuscript that says “Jehovah,” or anything remotely like it.
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Like I said. Trintarians don't beleive in Jesus. You slime Jesus Christ because his name means 'Jevovah is Salvation".
I'm posting this so others can see through your decption of denying JESUS. Jesus is the only way to salvation, not some cult trinity of (3) Gods with No Names. That is you refuse to post your trinity doctrine.
Are you also claiming Jesus which means "Jehovah is Salvation' is an error?
What about Elijah which means "My God is Jehovah"? There are many names that refer to Jehovah even though you deny Jesus and Elijah... Your tail and horns are showing.. 😈
What webs of lies we weave heh?
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If you are not going to take a break from posting as suggested, please help me understand a statement you made earlier in this thread. @BroRando said:
There is no such thing as JW doctrine. I gave 247 references that the translation committee used for the Greek Scriptures. I guess it was too deep for you to look at. So why should I listen to you? Someone who supports removing Christ from scripture? Afterall we published the KJV at one time.
I am mainly concern about this: "There is no such thing as JW doctrine". Then what is it? Do you know what the word, "doctrine" means? What do you teach in your Kingdom Hall and at people's doors? I don't mean to be rule or disrespectful, but "There is no such thing as JW doctrine". Please help me out, here. CM
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@BroRando said:
Your tail and horns are showing.. 😈
I know you're tried, but let's not go there. Keep it mature and adult like. CM
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@C Mc posted:
Stop spreading WT teaching repetitively in every thread in CD. This is not necessary; you need to get a grip and settle down. The sky is not falling. Your position is well known at this point. Your posts recently have taken a tone of desperation with the meaningless spewing of JWs talking points. The spreading Church doctrines may have been your mission all alone, but seem to have taken on a darken urgency. No minds are going to be changed on either side of this issue at this juncture.
. . . . .
@BroRando If you read last, I said as much. Ears and minds are turned off on both sides. Could you give it a rest for now? You are like a man in a sound-proof room screening, and no one is home. Take this moment to reflect upon what you have been taught and believe from the Kingdom Hall. And then, compare it with what you have been exposed to recently in CD through texts, reasoning, and the voice of the Holy Spirit. You do believe in God the Holy Spirit? In the meanwhile, pray for fresh understanding and a refreshing of your soul....
With due respect, CM, I don't understand the rationale behind these advisories to @BroRando. Why should he "give it a rest" when it comes to presenting his theology/Christology any more than you or I or any other poster?
To my count, you've created at least 16 CD threads in the last three years whose clear intention was to declare and persuade others about your views regarding the divinity of Jesus - six of those in this current calendar year; the most recent one just last month:
https://christiandiscourse.net/discussion/978/
https://christiandiscourse.net/discussion/959/
https://christiandiscourse.net/discussion/934/
https://christiandiscourse.net/discussion/917/
https://christiandiscourse.net/discussion/909/
https://christiandiscourse.net/discussion/897/
As far as I can tell, YOUR position on the issue is "well known at this point," and "no minds are going to be changed on either side of the issue at this juncture," yet YOU continue to create new threads to express your Christology. Should YOU "give it a rest"?
I respect but disagree with your views about Jesus, I celebrate the faith that undergirds them, and I have no desire whatsoever to ask you to stop creating or contributing to Christological threads. Post away!!! But I don't understand the basis on which you ask @BroRando to cease his posting when you obviously haven't ceased yours. Is it simply that you disagree with his views? That he comes from a religious community with which you take great issue? Is it the tone or attitude expressed in his posts?
In my view, the only kind of posts for whose termination we should advocate are those that violate CD guidelines, central among which, as Jan has reminded us, is that CD posters will "criticize ideas, not people." (BTW, I applaud your recent effort to that end (re: the "monster" critique), ineffectual though it was, sadly.)
And in case you're curious, I strongly disagree with much of @BroRando's theology. We both dispute the Trinity - he, much more dismissively than I, in my view - but in most other areas, we strongly disagree. But to him I also say, post away!!! Please help me understand why you believe he should stop posting his Christological views.
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While Rando was in a Frenzy, Coley never makes a peep.
Suddenly as Rando quivers in failure of the Watxhtower, Bill emerges from the brush pile. Odd. Watch and be wise.
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Please forward your inquiry of "rationale" to me in a PM. Since @BroRando doesn't read fellow posters' posts with any seriousness or consideration, no harm or disadvantage is done to his position/mission. CM
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2 Thessalonians 1:8
in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.
Like I said. Trintarians don't beleive in Jesus. You slime Jesus Christ because his name means 'Jevovah is Salvation".
I'm posting this so others can see through your decption of denying JESUS. Jesus is the only way to salvation, not some cult trinity of (3) Gods with No Names. That is you refuse to post your trinity doctrine.
Are you also claiming Jesus which means "Jehovah is Salvation' is an error?
What about Elijah which means "My God is Jehovah"? There are many names that refer to Jehovah even though you deny Jesus and Elijah...
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@C Mc posted:
Please forward your inquiry of "rationale" to me in a PM. Since @BroRando doesn't read fellow posters' posts with any seriousness or consideration, no harm or disadvantage is done to his position/mission. CM
Your response here doesn't make sense to me:
- If you don't think @BroRando reads other posters' posts "with any seriousness or consideration," then why ask me to communicate my request for your rationale by PM? Why bother with PMs when you don't think he would take your response(s) to me seriously?
- EDIT: And if you don't think he takes others' posts seriously, wasn't it a waste of your time to use two of your posts to ask him to stop posting his theology/Christology?
- I'm asking a straightforward question: How can you ask him to stop posting his theology/Christology on the grounds that a) he has made his point(s) clear, and b) no minds will be changed, when YOU continue to post YOUR theology/Christology even though a) you have made your point(s) clear, and b) no minds have been changed as a result? It seems to me he has a right to know your rationale for holding him to a different standard than you seem to hold yourself.
And I repeat: I'm NOT asking that you stop posting your theology/Christology. I say "post away!!!" to both of you, regardless of whether I or anyone else agrees with you. I just don't think you should hold him to a different standard.
So, no PMs, please, as I resubmit my request to you.
Post edited by Bill_Coley on -
@Bill_Coley said:
So, no PMs, please, as I resubmit my request to you.
Do I take this as you have pressed the "reset" have direct exchanges with me in forums after over a year of self-restrict ions? Bill, are you criticizing me, personally, openly for what you perceived as "holding him [ @BroRando ] to a different standard than you [ @C Mc ] seem to hold yourself [ @C Mc ]"? What happened to "criticize ideas and not people"?
Besides, @BroRando is of age; he can speak for himself. With the audacity to question the Divinity of Christ-God, I am sure he can speak to me directly, preferably in a PM (if serious) or here in the open forum. Are you @BroRando 's lawyer, advocate, or defender? It appears you're trying to create a fire where there is none. This is not necessary or required to re-engage exchanges with me. You're known to be better than this. Please don't disappoint fellow posters and readers.
In light of the reality and unwillingness to discuss with you my "rationale" (after publicly requesting it), in your words: "Your response here doesn't make sense to me" and no other poster or reader. This has the stench of confusion-making than problem-solving.
A blinded man can see that you are in sympathy with some of JW's teachings. Mainly, its core doctrine castigates and unabashedly denies the Divinity of Christ. The primary source of this belittlement of Jesus is the New World Translation Bible (NWT). A source I think is severely flawed with deliberate insertions to support JWs' theological bias. Especially since only one of the men has minimal knowledge of biblical languages, see my recent post above. You effectively interrupt the flow of posts and thoughts on the OP (The New World Translation: A Trustworthy "Bible"?). I don't know if you know it, but you're being used (see-appointed or sent by sympathizers). Detractions, switching topics, distorts, etc. So, with all due respect, @Bill_Coley, take apparent baseless criticism of me to a PM or elsewhere. Allow the continuous free flow of thoughts, posts, and truthful information to enlighten darkened minds.
Fear not, my friend, @Bill_Coley :
- @BroRando is still posting anti-christ divinity messages with the NWT and JWs' Websites and hasn't missed a beat.
- @C Mc and other posters are still posting on the subject matter at will
- @Bill_Coley, you encouraged @BroRando and I ( @C Mc ) to "post away!!!" And this we are doing. My earlier suggestions and my unexpressed "rationale" fell on death ears, and so, with any hindrance, we all are posting away our convictions from the Bible and history.
So, Bill, the whole tenet of your argument is "much to do about nothing." Let's not waste any more space or "e-ink" on the perceived matter, verifiable for all to see, if there were any validity to your precept. Meaning, there's no need for you as a middleman at this juncture. If you are @BroRando official advocate, I would encourage you to have him put on his "big-boy pants" and let's mine the OP. CM
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@C Mc posted:
Do I take this as you have pressed the "reset" have direct exchanges with me in forums after over a year of self-restrict ions? Bill, are you criticizing me, personally, openly for what you perceived as "holding him [ @BroRando ] to a different standard than you [ @C Mc ] seem to hold yourself [ @C Mc ]"? What happened to "criticize ideas and not people"?
I long ago hit the proverbial "reset button" related to your refusal to name the CD poster(s) whom in a September 2019 post you insinuated were not Christians.
As for my refusal to respond when in the future and unprompted you call me out to address an issue or explain some alleged news item(s), as you did HERE, that's a "reset button" I have not pushed. Your long-standing practice is not to respond to me when I respond to your challenges or debunk your conspiracy theories, so it's poor stewardship of my time to reply to such challenges and I will no longer do so. In this present case, however, you didn't call me out, so that restriction does not apply.
I offered criticism of your post - specifically, of what I believed was the double-standard it expressed. I did not and will not criticize you personally. So "criticize ideas, not people" is always the rule for CD posts, but not all posted criticisms violate it.
Besides, @BroRando is of age; he can speak for himself. With the audacity to question the Divinity of Christ-God, I am sure he can speak to me directly, preferably in a PM (if serious) or here in the open forum. Are you @BroRando 's lawyer, advocate, or defender? It appears you're trying to create a fire where there is none. This is not necessary or required to re-engage exchanges with me. You're known to be better than this. Please don't disappoint fellow posters and readers.
Not trying to start a fire. Trying to call your attention to what I perceived to be a double standard you imposed on @BroRando. Your view of that alleged double standard is not clear to me in your response.
A blinded man can see that you are in sympathy with some of JW's teachings. Mainly, its core doctrine castigates and unabashedly denies the Divinity of Christ. The primary source of this belittlement of Jesus is the New World Translation Bible (NWT). A source I think is severely flawed with deliberate insertions to support JWs' theological bias. Especially since only one of the men has minimal knowledge of biblical languages, see my recent post above.
I have very little "sympathy" for JW's teachings. I disagree strongly with them at many/most consequential points. And while I do not accept the Trinity, I certainly do not "castigate" the deity of Christ; I simply dispute it.
As for your dispute with JWs and their Bible translation, post away! Neither of those is an issue for me. My issue was the double standard I perceived you imposed on @BroRando IN THIS THREAD, the thread whose flow you claim I interrupted.
I don't know if you know it, but you're being used (see-appointed or sent by sympathizers). Detractions, switching topics, distorts, etc. So, with all due respect, @Bill_Coley, take apparent baseless criticism of me to a PM or elsewhere. Allow the continuous free flow of thoughts, posts, and truthful information to enlighten darkened minds.
FWIW, I don't that that I'm being used.
The basis of my criticism was abundantly clear, CM: You told @BroRando to stop posting his theology/Christology on the grounds that a) everyone knows what he thinks about the Trinity, and b) no minds will be changed at this point. Yet YOU continue to post YOUR Christology even though everyone knows what YOU think about the Trinity and no minds will be changed. That sounds like one standard for him and a different standard for yourself. Exactly what part of that criticism was "baseless"?
I don't know how an "unexpressed" rationale - or an "unexpressed" anything, for that matter - can fall on any kind of ears, "death" ("deaf"?) or otherwise.
And again, my issue wasn't that you weren't posting away. My issue was that you were not holding yourself to the same standard to which you held @BroRando.
So, Bill, the whole tenet of your argument is "much to do about nothing." Let's not waste any more space or "e-ink" on the perceived matter, verifiable for all to see, if there were any validity to your precept. Meaning, there's no need for you as a middleman at this juncture. If you are @BroRando official advocate, I would encourage you to have him put on his "big-boy pants" and let's mine the OP.
I have no connection, and only a brief and aging forum engagement history, with @BroRando.
Your response offers no substantive engagement with the issue I raised to you, an outcome which, given the history of our posts to each other over the years, does not at all surprise me. I can't say that I expected you to respond directly - that's just not how you roll - but I can say I tried to point out the double standard. That will have to suffice.
We move on.
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@Bill_Coley has received the attention, intrusively, like the North Korean President does by shooting off rockets, "mission accomplished"! Now, let's get back to the purpose this thread was started, to explore, The New World Translation: A Trustworthy "Bible"? CM
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Rocket Man!
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---------------------------------------------- New truth to an old story (NWT) from their books!!! ------------------------------------------
A broken-Critiren CAN’T HOLD WATER. The foundation of the JWs is unsustainable. A religious organization is no better than its biblical source.
Here is what WBTS say in their book concerning the NWT:
“a translation of the Holy Scriptures made directly from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek into modern-day English by a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah” (Reasoning From the Scriptures, 276).
“When presenting as a gift the publishing rights to their translation, the New World Bible Translation Committee requested that its members remain anonymous. The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania has honored their request” (Reasoning From the Scriptures, 277).
We know now the translators on the committee despite the WBTS’ refusal to release the names. Raymond Franz is a former member of the WBTS Governing Body. In his book, Crisis of Conscience, he states that the translation committee consisted of Governing Body members:
- George Gangas
- Albert Schroeder
- Fredrick Franz
- The then WBTS President, Nathan Knorr.
@BroRando, which of these men you knew personally?
“Fred Franz (Raymond Franz’s uncle, who later became WBTS President), however, was the only one with sufficient knowledge of the Bible languages to attempt [a] translation of this kind. He had studied Greek for two years in [at] the University of Cincinnati but was only self-taught in Hebrew” (Crisis of Conscience, 50).
The fact remains from testimony above and from other research that none of the NWT committee members, including Fredrick Franz, were qualified to make a scholarly translation from the original languages. No one on the committee had more than a rudimentary familiarity with Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic. This lack of expertise is revealed in the poor, biased quality of the NWT’s renderings of many key biblical passages.
Frederick W. Franz: the main translator, took liberal arts sequence at the University of Cincinnati; 21 semester hours of classical Greek, some Latin. Partially completed a two-hour survey course in Biblical Greek in junior year; course titled “The New Testament–A course in grammar and translation.” Left in spring of 1914 before completing the junior year. Self-taught in Spanish, biblical Hebrew, and Aramaic. Entered Brooklyn headquarters facility of Watchtower Society in 1920. Probable ghostwriter for J. F. Rutherford (2nd president of WTS) from the late 1920s through 1942. Vice president of WTS from 1942 to 1977, president from 1977 until death in 1992 at age 99.
Franz writes in his autobiography:
“What a blessing it was to study Bible Greek under Professor Arthur Kensella! Under Dr. Joseph Harry, an author of some Greek works, I also studied [the] classical Greek. [K] knew that if I wanted to become a Presbyterian clergyman, I had to have a command of Bible Greek. So I furiously applied myself and got passing grades” (The Watchtower, May 1, 1987, p. 24).
Franz gives the impression that the bulk of his Greek studies was “Bible Greek” under “Professor Kensella” and that classical Greek was secondary under “Dr. Joseph Harry.” The opposite is true. As mentioned above, Franz only took one 2-hour credit class of “Bible Greek” but 21 hours of classical Greek. According to the course catalog of 1911, Arthur Kensella was not a professor of Greek, as Franz wrote, but an “instructor in Greek.” Kensella did not have a Ph.D., and he taught entry level courses.
What? Only one 2-hour credit class of “Bible Greek” and made the above claims. Many may see framers of NWT, JWs, and the WBTS as pseudo-scholars and religious charlatans. What say ye? CM
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The LEB removed Christ from scripture at (Mark 1:34) Your translators removed Christ from scripture for one reason and one reason only. They denied the divinity of Jeus Christ. The LEB can not be trusted because of its antichirstian and charlatan bias.
And he healed many who were sick with various diseases and expelled many demons. And he did not permit the demons to speak, because they knew him.
to be Christ. -
JWs/WBTS used the master Greek text of Westcott and Hort, which is based on only 5% of the manuscripts, including the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus. These two corrupted manuscripts commissioned by Constantine leave out thousands of words and whole clauses. They contained the Apocrypha, which supports prayers for the dead.
See post above: https://www.christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/20521/#Comment_20521
This is the model for JWs/WBTS. It's no wonder that the New World Bible is described as a "biased" translation. CM
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You still have not addressed the removal of Christ from Christendom Bibles in Mark 1:34.
Constantine is a Pagan Roman Emperor. While we are told the first “Pope” was the disciple Peter (Peter never kept Sunday/Easter/Christmas nor did he believe in a Trinity God) it was actually Emperor Constantine. Constantine held the title “Pontifex Maximus” which literally means “High Priest” of the sun god Zeus/Apollo (Greek incarnations of Nimrod/Tammuz). He was the High Priest of his god Apollo also known as Mithra the sungod. Apollo and Mithra are just other name for Nimrod/Tammuz that evolved out of ancient Babylon as the languages were confused at the Tower of Babel. Constantine’s religion was called The Cult of Sol Invictus which means the Cult of the Invincible Sun. Constantine was a sun worshipper as the religion of Babylon was literally transplanted to Rome. I covered that in my last book and again in both The Kingdom of YHVH and The Yahushaic Covenant.
The Pope of Rome to this day holds the same title of Pontiff and to this day worships the same sungod. This “Roman religion” is known as The Cult of Sol Invictus or The Cult of the Invincible Sun. The Cult of Sol Invictus dates back to the Babylonian religion created by Semiramis defined in my book Mystery Babylon – The Religion of the Beast..
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JWs/WBTS False claims:
- Ezekiel 39:6
- Matthew 6:9
- Exodus 3:15
- Romans 10:13
JWs/WBTS Claim:
- Jesus is never called Jehovah—Therefore, he cannot be God.
- The word Jehovah was removed from most of the OT by superstitious Jews.
- The word Jehovah was removed from the NT by early apostate Christians.
**************** A lie may get the headlines, but truth carries the story *****************
In response to the JWs/WBTS false claims above:
- To the ancients, the name of a person stood for the person.
- YHWH + ADONAI’s vowels = YAHOWAH [YAHUWAH] → Yiddish → German as Jehovah.
- The word Jehovah is not found anywhere in NT or OT
- God has many names in the OT and the NT (Elohim, Adonai, Father, God, Lord, etc.)
- Jesus never called his Father Jehovah.
- Manuscript evidence (e.g., the Rylands Papyrus) rules out even the possibility of Jehovah being removed from the NT.
Let truth carry the story. CM
Source:
- Jehovah’s Witnesses by John Oaks, PhD
